Meet the crazies

This paramilitary leader, a bachelor who slept with his gun Shirley, wrote of trying “to satisfy that primal urge that makes you want to kill.”

The quote is from a July 5, 1996 New York Times article about an Arizona militia group called the Vipers, which probably sounds familiar to you if you watched Countdown or Rachel Maddow’s shot tonight. The article profiled two members of the Viper Militia, a guy called Dean Pleasant, a chronically unemployed twenty-something (at the time) failed political candidate who according to a former roommate, never grew out of his G.I. Joe phase, and his then-32-year-old housemate “Randy L. Nelson, a house painter who called himself the Captain of the Viper Militia,” and as described in the quote, “slept with his beloved ‘Shirley,’ a Browning machine gun mounted on the headboard of his bed.” The two wound up in the middle of a scandal, a year after the infamous Oklahoma City bombing:

Searching the trim white-and-blue bungalow in the suburb of Peoria on Monday, Federal agents, according to court papers, found a small armory tucked into dressers and stacked in closets: grenades, fuses, blasting caps, 2 pistols, 2 machine guns, 6 rifles and 56 boxes crammed with 11,463 rounds of ammunition. On the living room coffee table was a how-to manual called “Domestic Disturbances.”

Today, the 2 roommates, along with 10 other members of the Vipers paramilitary group, are in jail here, facing charges that include illegal possession of a machine gun and conspiracy to teach bombing techniques to provoke civil disorder. [A newspaper has described how an undercover state officer helped in the case. Article, page A16.]

A largely blue-collar mix of high school graduates and dropouts, all the Vipers are white, have no significant criminal records and are stuck in low-paying jobs.

The genesis of the Vipers was as follows:

In 1994, Mr. Pleasant was living at his parents’ house here and studying at a local community college when agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms knocked on the door, wanting to ask questions about his recent gun trades. Furious, Mr. Pleasant refused to cooperate, recalled a friend, Ernest Hancock. A few days later, around May 30, 1994, he and a married couple, Ellen and David W. Belliveau, started filming Government buildings in Phoenix, including the firearms bureau’s office. Later, the three friends formed the nucleus of a paramilitary group they called the Viper Militia.

The Viper name, a rallying symbol for the paramilitary movement, is believed to be a salute to the Revolutionary War-era rattlesnake flag, which carried the warning, “Don’t Tread on Me!

Well, the Viper Militia, and a curious rise in visible firearms displays, are back, and with eerie ties to Arizona. Take the “water the tree of liberty” protester in New Hampshire, who showed up at a Barack Obama town hall strapped. According to

NH-nutterThe man who brought a gun to President Barack Obama’s town hall meeting on Tuesday is a former Arizona resident with ties to an extreme right-wing group that calls for “resistance… against unconstitutional or illegal behavior by government officials.”

William Kostric, 36, formerly of Scottsdale, stood outside the New Hampshire meeting  on healthcare with a gun holstered at his thigh and holding a sign proclaiming that “it is time to water the tree of liberty.”

… Records show that Kostric is a “team member” of the Arizona chapter of We the People Foundation, which has a stated goal of “returning America to it’s founding principles.”

On its Web site, We the People’s founder, Robert Schulz, says: “Our recent initiatives have focused largely on questioning the federal government’s abuse of its Constitutional powers to incur debt, tax labor, create currency by fiat, conduct war and police the peace,” We the People says on its Web site.

While the group maintains that it is not concerned with politics or personalities in office, Schulz is a proud supporter of the birther movement (those folks who believe that Obama wasn’t really born in the United States and shouldn’t be president) and We the People joined a lawsuit challenging Obama’s presidency based on his citizenship.

Kostric could not be reached for comment Wednesday. But records show he recently moved from Scottsdale to New Hampshire.

Kostric’s My Space page is replete with paeans to militia groups.Among his heroes, Kostric lists Randy Weaver, the anti-government separatist and end-time believer whose wife and son died during a shoot out with FBI  agents at Ruby Ridge.

And there there were the dozen or so people who showed up armed at an Obama event in Arizona, including a black guy named “Chris”, who has vowed forceful resistance against the government, though he doesn’t say what for:

So who paid Chris’s way to the event, and staged that creepy show of force? As Rachel Maddow and TPM have reported:

Ernest Hancock, the online radio host who staged an interview with an assault rifle-wielding associate at the Obama event in Arizona yesterday — and was himself armed with a 9 millimeter pistol — was a vocal supporter and friend of right-wing anti-government militia members who were convicted of conspiracy and weapons charges in the 90s.

That group, of course, is the Viper Militia. A bit more:

“I was good friends with Dean Pleasant, one of the guys that did five and half years,” Hancock said, who added the entire case was “made up.”

“I’ve been feeling this coming again,” he continued. “It’s the same people. It’s Rahm Emanuel, it’s Janet Napolitano. It’s Hillary Clinton. All these were the same people that were doing it back then.” Napolitano, who later became Arizona governor and is now secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, was the prosecutor in the Viper Militia case.

“This militia scare is what got them their crime ban. It was all manufactured,” said Hancock, scoffing at the term “White Al Qaeda,” which he said he’s been seeing in the local press.

Rahm Emanuel? How did he get in there? And have you noticed how often his name, alongside President Obama’s, comes up? If you dig a little deeper into the militia movement, which has roots in 1980s-era groups like the defunct? Arizona Patriots and the Posse Comitatus, you’ll find that its target “enemies”, even more often than Blacks, are Jews:

The Posse Comitatus is an intermittently active, loosely organized group of “Christian Identity” activists dedicated to survivalism, vigilantism, and anti-government agitation. Following the pseudo-religious tenets of the “Identity” movement, Posse members typically proclaim Jews to be the “synagogue of Satan,” blacks and other people of color to be subhuman “mud races,” and Northern European whites to be the “Chosen People” of Biblical prophecy. The name of the group translates from Latin to mean “power of the county,” and the Posse believes that all governmental power is rooted at the county, not Federal, level.

Because Posse members believe that the Federal government is controlled by “enemies” – often meaning Jews – they resist paying taxes, as well as other duties of law abiding citizenship. Some members of the group have even refused to apply for driver’s licenses, because this would imply submission to an “illegitimate, subversive” authority. Elements of the Posse’s ideology, most notably its fierce hostility to Federal authority are echoed among today’s militias.

And the Vipers feel much the same way:

Like today’s gun-wielding anti-Obama protesters, the Vipers feared government encroachment by a Democratic president The father of a one militia member recalled him saying, “You should be happy you won’t be around in 30 years. The way we’re going, we’ve got to stop it. I hope we’ll change presidents and stop the One World Order.”

Sometimes the militia members’ paranoia degenerated into anti-Semitism. One Viper Militiaman “would talk about conspiracy theories behind gun control laws, and how the world was being run financially by this secret conspiracy composed of Jews,” recalled a former teacher of his from a Phoenix weapons academy.

Which kind of makes you take a second look at this woman… who has attracted the attention of those who pay attention to such things. Back to Mr. Pleasant for a moment. In that 1995 NYT article, he is said to have had a particular problem with taxes, gun control, and insurance mandates:

In a parallel protest strategy, Mr. Pleasant, already an officer in the local Libertarian Party chapter, decided to fight big government by running for a seat in the Arizona State Senate.

Describing taxes as “legalized theft,” the Libertarian candidate called for an end to firearms controls and mandatory auto insurance.

“The No. 1 thing I want to see done is the repeal of state-mandated auto insurance,” he told The Arizona Republic newspaper. In 1991, he spent 31 days in jail for driving without insurance and without license plates.

A bit more on the militia movement, from a prescient AZ Central article published just two months before right wing militia member Tomothy McVeigh bombed the Murrah federal building:

A ”New World Order” is building like a thunderhead. Foreign troops under the control of the United Nations are training secretly on American soil. Black helicopters are shadowing patriots to spy on them. The military, the FBI, the president, the National Guard – almost anyone in uniform, it seems – are plotting to rob Americans of their civil rights and their guns.

The key to fending off the impending assault, Cooper and others like him say, is to form private militias. And across Arizona and the rest of the nation, thousands of mostly working-class and rural folks are responding. Many are gathering in homes or at conventions, reading patriot newsletters, generating ”intelligence” for Cooper’s organization and others, communing through shortwave radio and computer. Some are training with weapons. Others are stockpiling supplies to ensure survival when the battle ignites.

Civil-rights groups and law-enforcement agents are nervous. They fear that the patriot movement will goad some extremists into violence against Jews, blacks or lawmen. [Links added]

… The patriot ranks are not a cohesive force, and their numbers are hard to estimate. Loosely organized militias have sprung up in at least 13 states, according to an October report by the New York City-based Anti-Defamation League. The militias are strongest in Michigan, Montana, Colorado and Florida, and their goal is to lay ”the groundwork for massive resistance to the federal government and its law-enforcement agencies,” the report states.

In Arizona, small militia bands are being organized in every county, Espy says. Some strongholds appear to be areas near Prescott, Snowflake, Kingman and the Four Corners, authorities say.

In Navajo County, when Sheriff Gary Butler ran for re-election in 1992, he was perplexed by men who would show up for his speeches lobbing questions about federal forces attacking the county and about a New World Order. He didn’t know what to make of it until he consulted someone acquainted with the group and was able to come up with appeasing answers.

”I wasn’t going to say anything to provoke them,” Butler said.

”Some would even show up with guns on,’‘ and one was drunk, he added. ”It kind of gave us all the chills.”

In many ways, the militia movement of the 1980s and 1990s is back (or maybe it never went away.) The Libertarian and Ron Paul movements, which form a significant part of the “tea party” movement, are infested with them. They have been galvanized by the ascension of a liberal, black president and his prominent Jewish and Clinton-era team, and by the comradery they are able to find on the Internet (not to mention on Fox News and right wing talk radio). They are armed, and people who argue that they aren’t dangerous just because they have clean criminal records don’t remember much history. Mr. Pleasant and his friends had clean records, too.

I’ve had some brushes with these types, and indeed, not all of them are racist, or even white. We had a few callers from the black helicopter crowd when I was on the radio, and suffice it to say I may very well have recently worked with, and for, a couple of them… And now for one last, chilling clip from that February 1995 AZ Central piece:

Their fears that government is snatching their guns, money and rights reflect the throw-the-bums-out feeling that has gripped the country. Only they add a dark, Orwellian twist.

… At the December convention in Mesa, pamphlets and speakers ran the gamut of patriot correctness: the threat of David Rockefeller’s Trilateral Commission, which they believe is pushing one-world government; the need to return to a gold standard; crimes and conspiracies they think are being perpetrated by Bill and Hillary Clinton.

… The menace posed by militia groups is not only that a violent confrontation with authorities could ensue but that it could trigger a chain reaction across the nation, civil-rights advocates say. ”You have a private army functioning out there according to their own view of the law,” said Mike Reynolds, editor of the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Report, which monitors such groups.

”They want to move forward in an aggressive, paramilitary manner. It’s not a question of if it’s going to occur. It’s when, and where it will be.”

More on the militia movement from the Anti-Defamation League.

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25 Responses to Meet the crazies

  1. NHTPC says:

    The only crazies are the Obama supporters who continue to incite violence where ever they show up.

    Note in this video, two Obama thugs walk right up to the armed Kostric and kick him in the groin, and then spit in the face of the cameraman.

    NICE EH?

    Kostric is not crazy and was 100% legal. It’s the two Obama thugs that were scary.

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  3. NHTPC says:

    I guess I shouldn’t hold my breath for your report of Left Wing violence. Some of these folks are even working in the Obama administration!

    The crazies are now running the government.

    The sane ones are out in the streets protecting themselves from the crazies and their paid thugs.

  4. jreid says:

    I thought left wingers were “anti-gun” … what are they gonna do, bore you to death? Your side is composed of gun nuts, militia members, self-described “right wing terrorists,” alarmists, pseudo Christians who spurn all of Jesus’ teachings, useful corporate idiots and Glenn Beck. I think we’re more afraid of you than you are of us.

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  6. Lauryn says:

    I just happened to Google the Viper Militia of Arizon today and see that there are still people out there that are continously mis-informed about the story and the arrests and ultimate time served by the militia members.

    I personally know David Belliveau. You cannot ask for a better man in the whole world. Since his release from Big Springs, Texas in 2000, he has lived an conscienable life with some regrets. Mr. Belliveau is a brilliant in his mindset and he’s quite the visionary. Personally, I think he missed his calling by not running for public office. He’s articulate, passionate about the US Constitution to this day and demonstartes the virocity of a true American patriot.

    I became fascinated with the story when it broke in Arizona in 1996. When I reveiwed the case and ultimately hunted Mr. Belliveau down, I heard his side of the story, something that cannot be found anywhere on the Internet. I truly believe this man was never a danger to anyone nor did he deserve the prison time he received. The reports of Mr. Belliveau and his wife driving through Phoenix recording high official buildings was not intended for what the press, FBI, ATF and Marshall’s Office made it out to be. I truly believe that they had to come up with a riveting story to build a conviction against this man and make political careers in the process.

    No, I cannot speak for the remaining members of this long dismantled group but what I do know is when you’re on the other side of this story and with what’s happening in today’s world, militia’s will rise up just like the Southern Poverty Law Group predicted. Every day our freedoms are being aken from us and the American public will ultimately grow weary. You see it now with all the town hall meetings and crap that spews out of Obamas mouth. Big Brother was never supposed to happen nor was a one world organization nor socialist medicine in this land we call “great”. I liken the flourishing behaviors of the general populace to that of the “pitch-fork, torches and shovel” mentaliity that is presently coming together all over America. I heard some one say just yesterday a new revolution is a must in order to re-gain what has been ripped from us thus far.

    Putting Obama in the White House was a huge mistake. I dread it’s only going to get worse before it gets better and the people will ultimately will attempt to take back their freedoms.

    Think about it.

  7. jreid says:

    Oh Lauren,
    Did you feel that our freedoms were in jeopardy when President Bush was reading our emails and monitoring our phonecalls, or is this just a Democrat v. Republican thing for you? And what “crap” is Obama spewing that bothers you? The “crap” about providing affordable, universal healthcare so that insurance companies can no longer deny medical care to anyone for the sake of their own profits, or the “crap” about bipartisanship? If you’re talking about the latter, I’m with you all the way.

  8. Lauryn says:

    Yes JREID – Bush was no better. And you ABSOLUTELY have to do more homework when it comes to the so-called “universal health care reform bill”. You most keep in mind that if it sounds to good to be true, then it is. Call me a cynic, call me whatever ….

    America SHOULD be worried about what’s happening in the Obama White House. Voting that idiot in was the worse mistake that the American populace has made to date. I am sick to death of waking up every morning, tuning into my local news station only to here the dribble that falls out of the mouth of the infamous tele-prompter reading moron we call president and his paid goons.

    I happen to be married to one of the original Vipers. When my husband was released from federal prison in 2000 he acknowledged he had been de-fanged but knew in his heart that he would always be a patriot. If my husband hadn’t taken a left turn into federal prison, he no doubt would have sought public office and won! I did not meet my husband until late 2007. I, myself, am a highly educated woman who holds a very lucrative job addressing social reform issues. I had read and re-read anything and everything that I could get my hands on before I would agree to a relationship with this man. He told me of his affiliation with the Vipers on our first date. Being a native Arizonan, I was very familiar with the Viper story when it broke in 1996. I KNOW the otherside of the story and have read documentation that was not allowed in court including the denial for a jury consultant, (denied), a weapons expert (denied) and the testimony of a retired BATF agent (denied). I have come to realize how my husband was truly a political prisoner tried in the court of public opinion and then indicted by paranoid, overzealous elitists with an axe to grind. Political careers were made and broken on the backs of these people. The ones who pursued my husband were and ARE the true paranoid conspiracy theorists. These are the most dangerous people in our society. My husband has faded into our community and is of tremendous character. What’s interesting to me is the fact that his visions of yester-year dealing with “Big Brother”, ” a ONE WORLD ORGANIZATION”, a socialist health care reform bill, 2nd ammendmendt violation(s), incresed taxes and a slew of other issues have now come to pass. Whenever my husband wants to talk politics, I listen as does our family and friends. Like any good soldier committed to the “greater cause” he has never been afraid to put his life on the line to protect the Declaration of Independence, the US Constitution and everything that goes with it. Personally, I think Obama is the “devil-incarnate” and we, as tax-paying Amercian citizens need to stand together against a corrupted government. Obama needs to realize that the “pitch-fork” and “shovel” mentality in our nation is alive and well and certainly growing in numbers.

    I am honored to be married to this man and I feel safe in his knowledge. I believe in the old adage “an armed society is a polite society” and even though my husband has been forbidden to ever touch a firearm again, his belief system is his and it shall remain that way.

    By the way, out of the original 12 that were arrested my husband was and IS the educated one and he wasn’t relying on a “low-paying” job at the time of his arrest. It infuriates the hell out of me that people who are gun enthusiasts and who believe in ONE NATION UNDER GOD are automatically labeled “rednecks”, “big mouths”, “lunatics”, crazies” and are generally considered to be the “radical scum of the earth”. No one and I mean no one has ever, ever asked my husband about his side of the story. When I read the articles that villify these people, it makes me realize that the “spin doctors” are alive and well and hard at work. Yeppers, the freest place on earth is not free at all. If the American people would wake up and realize they are human mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed bullshit) perhaps we wouldn’t be in this awful mess.

    Before any one of you out there think about getting on your soap boxes about the Vipers and what they were all about, I suggest you do your research and comment intelligently about them or don’t comment at all.


  9. JReid says:

    — I think you meant “drivel,” you highly educated woman, you. BTW, does the “pitchfork and shovel” mentality include becoming the lone gunman? If so, you’re scaring me. Armed insurrection against the government is treason, madam. You say you love to read, so please read up on it.

  10. Diageo says:

    People like Lauryn are typical of white supremacists who consider a Harvard educated black man to be a “moron”, and themselves, with their misspellings and confused view of history, to be “highly educated.”

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  12. Lauryn says:

    Never in my life have I ever read something as idiotic as this article. You people have no idea what the Viper TEAM was all about and what little you do know was simply spun by the media. Their case was made in the court of public opinion before they even had a chance to plead their case in a court of law.

    I’m a wife to an original TEAM member. I was aware of the hoopla that occured in 1996, long before I met my husband and I did follow the story as it unfolded. If you nimrods had done your homework before you wrote this ridiculous article labeling the true patriots and Constitutionalists of our time as whackos, crazies and nut-jobs, you wouldn’t have bothered with this rhetoric. One Viper member was and is a visionist. If you would sit down and read the original documents surrounding this case even if you are of average intelligence, you would be able to see through the bullshit and made up charges against the members. Because of Obama’s outlandish healthcare reform bill and how it obviously affects our ability to make choices underthe Constitution, some man shows up to protest Obama’s plan at a Town Hall meeting. So what. It’s his RIGHT even if he was packing with the proper red tape in place. He too was exercising his right of assemblance under the Constitution. Obama is a frigging idiot and so is NapoliatanoIn. In this article it appears that you “label” and “compare” and most importantly confuse vocation with patriotism. Just because a member worked in a donut shop doesn’t mean that he’s a loser. It means that he’s willing to get off of his ass and not sit on the government payroll. You idiots need to read the Constitution as authored by James Madison and note that there is verbiage that supports the right to peacefully assemble as a militia. Back in the day boys were encouraged to join A MILITIA at the age of 18. Many lied about their age only to lose their lives on the battlefield. The Vipers were rail- roaded and note that it was done in an election year (1996). The Viper belief system made political careers and destroyed political careers. For the pinkos out there you can be rest assured that the member that calls me “angel face” is an upstanding citizen, an awesome father and grandfather, a very hard worker, attends church, tithes and pays his taxes. He’s a law abiding but still considers himself a PATRIOT and believes in the indoctrination of the Constitution, it’s liberties/freedoms and the right to defend this nation that we all call home. Get a friggin’ grip America before Obama allows two more buildings to fall on top of your heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. Lauryn says:

    DIAGEO – I am far from a “white supremacist”. I could care less if Obama was orange. And for your information and by definition, the man is a MULATTO. He has a white mother and a black father. It gives him the unique opportunity to adhere to the heritage he feels more comfortable with and it happens to be African American. More power to him. Your mind-set makes you one scary individual if you think that people are lashing out because of the color of the man’s skin. Is that all you have? Surely, you can cite something better then that . It makes me laugh when people like you raze up and take a jab at me using the racist card. You’re ridiculous. BTW, I’m still highly educated and continue to work my lucrative job. Can you say the same?

  14. jreid says:

    Um … Lauryn …four points:

    1. Nobody has used the term “mulatto” since Strom Thurmond was middle aged. That’s a term referencing mixed race slaves. Gee, if you really are a “highly educated” non-white supremacist, you sure hide it well. Do you use terms like “miscegenation” and “Negro” too?

    2. What in the world is a “visionist” — is that even a word?

    3. “Just because a member worked in a donut shop doesn’t mean that he’s a loser.” — I’m using that one. Love it!

    4. James Madison “authored” the Constitution? By himself? Ok be honest — you’re Sarah Palin right? The mangled syntax, the made-up words … yeah, you’re her…

    Actually, on a serious note, Madison is called the “father of the Constitution” because he contributed a lot to it (along with 56 other people…) And he introduced 19 Amendments to it in Congress, 12 of which were moved through, becoming the Bill of Rights. And I’ll bet you didn’t know this:

    “…In 1785, Madison had written one of the most significant essays regarding separation of religion and government (often referred to as the separation of church and state), which no doubt gave him inspiration for some of the Bill of Rights.”

    So before you get too far gone on Madison, know that he wouldn’t have favored turning America into a Christian theocracy the way so many of you wingers want.

  15. Lauryn says:

    I’m familiar – thank you very much. I still contend and I always will contend it’s people like you that make this nation a very scary place to live.

  16. Lauryn says:

    September 26, 2009

    I cannot believe how many articles that I have read about the Viper Militia and all but a scant few really understand what happened that day in 1996. I think most of you forget t996 happened to be an election year and this farce followed on the heels of the Oklahoma City bombing. The Vipers were not EVEN in the league of McVeigh yet they were demonized because they were weekend warriors. Political careers were made and destroyed on the backs of these people. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that the America that so many of us have laid down our lives for is in serious trouble. I happen to know the Vipers and no, they’re not whack jobs, they’re not crazy nor are they right wing nut jobs as so many of you have labeled them. Obama is a scary, scary man. The Vipers, as a whole, predicted the here and now. If they were guilty of any thing it was being visionaries. And for the idiots that say they were charged and convicted for “plotting” to blow up government buildings, you’re wrong. They were convicted on weapon charges. So many people focus on the amount of explosive powder they had in their possession. The interesting thing is, you could buy that particular concoction at any mining supply store back in the day with no questions asked. These people were tried in the court of public opinion before they stood before a Federal judge. I would bet all my worldly goods that the people who sit in judgment on the other side of their computer screens have never even bothered to physically trek to the 9th circuit Federal Court Building in Phoenix and pull the transcripts which are quite public. WOW – they tell a whole different story then the political machine had led us to believe. So, what do you ignoramus’ do? You believe everything that you read in the media when we all know that yellow journalism abounds. The media reports only the story that they think will sell their papers or that will get you to tune in their news channel and blatantly fill our heads with fiction versus fact. . I have news for you and REAL news – not the fabricated rhetorical bullshit that is so callously reported. These people are hard core Constitutionalists. They believe in the doctrine(s) of our Founding Fathers as we ALL should. I value my first and second amendment rights.. Obama and his cabinet of Commie goons work day and night to rattle our cage and it’s so sad to see that he’s succeeding. Where does Michelle Obama get off shutting down a street with tax payer monies simply because she wanted to leave the White House and shop for some organic whatever the hell it was when there are people in the Administration that are already on the payroll to do that.

    I have to laugh when people make the statement that only “cowards carry guns to town hall meetings”. What the hell do you think people did 150 years ago when town halls met? Arizona is a right to carry state. If that statement strikes a nerve with any of you, then you know that I am right.

    I bet a few of the things that you didn’t know about the Viper trial is they were denied certain defense procedures that would have helped their cause. Somewhere along the way, the judge that tried the case, dismissed the Constitution in an open court of law. (Besides, it was the media that dubbed them the VIPER MILITIA when in actuality they were known as the Viper Team. Sorry, I digress) They were denied a jury consultant, and a former BATF weapons expert among a few other things.

    The Viper that I know oh so very well is an upstanding citizen these days, he’s married with a family, he’s a professional in his chosen line of work, has a lovely home, he pays his taxes, attends church and tithes. He is a God-fearing man who carries a burden in his heart because although he no longer involves himself in “conspiracy theories”, clandestine meetings or attends rally’s of any type, he still considers himself a patriot. One most remember that you need not be armed to prove your patriotism or make a statement of perceived political wrong-doing. This man is now a firm believer that the pen is mightier then the sword and by just by looking at him and unless you knew his background, he blends in nicely with society – society that he doesn’t necessarily agree with but what he does realize is that people will tire of the tyranny in the Obama White House and will ultimately rebel. After all, the Constitution does say that we have the right to assemble as a militia under certain critical circumstances. I ask you, my fellow Americans – how much more are you going to allow yourself to be walked on and stripped of your freedoms? Ponder this. Aren’t you all a tad curious in light of all that has happened in our government do you not wonder how many militias are now forming? I prefer to look at it as the “pitch fork and shovel” mentality. When the old crappola hits the fan and it will, it’s these guys that I pray run interference for all of the decent people who have been victimized by Obama and his tele-prompting ability to speak with a forked tongue.

    I’d like to add one thing and no where and I mean no where have I been able to locate an interview or any type of comment(s) from any of the Viper Team members since once again and because of Ernest Hancock and one perceived bone head with an AR at a town hall meeting have managed to bring these Constitutional patriots into the spotlight once again.

    Personally, I think we need to hear directly from them and I know for a fact they still meander among us regular sheep that are about to be led to slaughter.

  17. Lauryn says:

    PS: DIAGEO – Don’t address me on any level you frigging idiot.

  18. JReid says:

    I think you’re nuts. However I will give you the opportunity to explain to me what one would need all that fertilizer and chemicals for, if not to blow something up… I’ll wait to hear back.

  19. Lauryn says:

    JR – I have finally decided that you cannot “fix stupid” so therefore there is no hope for you or DIAGEO. Both of you are the epitome if the word. When you have read the case and become better versed, only then will I acknowledge your comments. That goes for DIAGEO as well in the event he too would like to jump on your band wagon.

  20. Lauryn says:

    Grrrr .. OF .. that too

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